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  GSKA 2014 Race #10 Registration
2014-08-23 13:00:00 GMT+00:00
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Brian Lohman



Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 43
Score: 858
Location: Jacksonville, Florida

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll throw my 2 cents in here being that I'm the father of a Jr driver and have a couple years experience with Taylor racing in some larger events. Clean versus unclean driving/drivers. Clean is when a driver is making a pass and the driver being passed is aware of the overtaking move. Unclean is making an overtaking move that is unbeknowst to the driver being overtaken and contact is made causing carnage. You don't wan't to get the label of being a unclean/dirty driver because you won't finish many races because you'll have a BIG bullseye on your bumper and it will get pretty expensive. I know Taylor was looking to lay some wood to Angus's bumper in cadet for making an unclean(contact) move and causing major damage to his minimax. But that's racing.
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John Wehrheim
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2498
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Location: Norcross

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, when they had nationals at Jacksonville there is quite a bit of passing on the inside of this corner.
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richie#89



Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 745
Score: 8853


PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john, there was alot of passing in that corner on saturday too. angus made 3 passes in that corner, and the adults rotax karts made a lot. i even think allen made a pass there in seniors.

earlier i said i didn't know what i was doing and that wasn't true. i've been racing something my whole life, and i have a 14 year old son who started racing when he was 6, and of course there's angus who started at 4 and has raced 3 different types of motorsports now and has been competitive in all of them.

that said, brian is was good meeting you as well ... but, i must take issue with your comments.
1. you have to be kidding when you determine a clean vs. unclean by the driver being passed awareness. some of these kids are so tunnel visioned that they don't have a clue what's going on around them. if that was true, then angus would have to get to know each racer and figure out their abilities. angus is going to assume every driver out there is as aware of what's going on around him as he is. and i can tell you this. at any point if you were to freeze a race, angus could tell you where everyone is and how they are running. after the race, if he has the chance to see you from behind, he will tell you that driver's weaknesses.
2. angus didn't make an unclean move. he made an aggressive move but it wasn't unclean. angus and i both still say that the contact wasn't angus' fault for making an unclean pass. there were factors involved, though. angus dove in, jesse moved down a little. angus moved down to avoid contact and touched the curb which broke his rear loose and he and jesse then collided. racing, plain and simple.
3. as for taylor being upset with angus, that is ridiculous. taylor was so far back when this happened there is no reason he should have hit anyone except that he wasn't looking ahead and must have been looking right down at his front nose. only taylor is to blame for his damage. that is just crazy. he was 2 karts back and not even close to michael who was behind this incident.

but brian, we'll be back and we'll have the cadet next time. tell taylor he'll have his chance, but angus is pretty fast in his cadet too. so before you can put any wood on him, you gotta be able to keep up Laughing
it's a great track you guys have.
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Ihor Bilyy
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Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1871
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Location: Canton, GA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A-ha, tunneled. Every kid starting in karting have to learn (and most do) to be aware of other drivers. Ask anybody, this is rule number 1. If you are tunneled or assume others are, this is your only fault. This is open wheel racing, any tires contacts may result in overturn kart and we are talking about 200 lb being on top of your kid. I know now Angus was tunneled when he kept saying "i've got him" after the race. Tire marks clearly showing he did NOT.
As for the passing in that place, read my explanation (first 2 sentences) - you have to be side by side before outside driver makes decision to make a turn. I'm not sure if it was half or one and a half lap after Angus made a bump check on Michael but here is what Michael said after the race: "I was really mad and did want to do the same to him". Another commentary after the heat: "oh, no, don't do it, Angus.... &^$*&%$" <-- thats a sound of crash. You forgot that Taylor started first row and he was right there and the narrowest part of the track was blocked by 2 karts.
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richie#89



Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 745
Score: 8853


PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes taylor started first row and angus started on back row. by the time of this incident, angus and taylor had switched places. angus had worked himself to the front, and taylor had moved to the back. angus had nothing to do with taylors move to the rear except to pass him in his move to the front.
ihor, you didn't read my post right. it wasn't angus who was tunnel visioned. it was the racers who ran into the back of karts. and not even michael as he was close, but taylor was not so close that he couldn't have avoided it heads up.
but i didn't bring taylor into this until his dad made outrageous claims against angus as if angus was responsible for taylor breaking stuff.
and to all, this is racing. you will break stuff. if you don't want your stuff broken, then don't race it.

and as for michael's commentary for angus not going for a pass - that's michael. he can choose to not be aggressive, and he does. in the first race of the year, angus made a jump at the start in the heat and passed michael for P1 going into turn #1. michael chose to then follow angus for the entire heat and then for the entire feature. michael was faster that day and was on angus' bumper all day but never attempted a pass. you can choose to race that way, but angus will not. if he's faster, he will attempt a pass. after that race, angus could not understand why michael never attempted a pass. and all the way home kept repeating how he didn't understand why michael just followed him all day cause michael was faster that day and should have passed him. and if you remember, angus was constantly looking back and driving a defensive line. he was not tunnel visioned, and if michael would have attempted a pass, angus would have been expecting it. angus would have tried to block within reason, but would have given way to the faster kart. if angus is behind and running faster that day, then you guys should show him the same respect he has shown you.

for the record, except for crazy starts. angus has not pinched off a kart that was overtaking him since he did it to connor last year in micromax. and when he did it to connor, i remember connor gave angus an earful about it, and angus listened and learned.

it seems to me that all of your issues are with angus overtaking. if angus is faster, then maybe you guys are blocking if you're not letting him through. personally, i want him to work for passes, but you are the ones who keep telling me this isn't nascar. we're fine with nascar, but if you are not, then give way and there won't be any more issues.
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amax20



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 329
Score: 3643


PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading all of this, I gotta tell ya it is good entertainment, but it is really taking alot away from all the kids and the talent that is growing. Florida was nice enough to let us come and race our series with them and I think that we put on one heck of a show. Did we all finish were we wanted to no. Did we get bumped around alittle yes. So what nobody got paid and everybody had a great time. The kids are learning in a class that is really fast. For the most part they are all on the same tenth. At ten years old you are learning every time you go out unless you have raced since you were five and even then you will make a bone head move. Heck at 44 i am still making bone head moves, just ask tilden he passed me everytime he got behind me. Shocked

I am very proud of all the boys. Very Happy Angus, Micheal, Jesse, Connor, Ross, Conner all are at different stages in there young racing life and they are going to make mistakes, we as Dad's have to try and let them know right from wrong on the track and off. Racing is an aggressive sport not for the timid. If you are going to always want the perfect pass you will leave the track everytime an angry man. Let them race, correct them when they are in the wrong and praise them every chance you get. What we see from the fence is not always the way it looks when you are sitting behind that little bitty wheel. Not taking any sides I see both sides of the picture JMO.
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Ihor Bilyy
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Joined: 10 Apr 2006
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Location: Canton, GA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God save kids in Jacksonville... You will always be faster by drafting.

I can't compete with you on spending and AFAIK you didn't break anything seriously (except some bandolero bodywork). My son knows he will not be racing if his kart breaks and it is not worth in local race to risk it.
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richie#89



Joined: 02 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i guess allen is the guys with the wisdom. i tend to get a little intense about angus' racing. Arguing
glad i gave you some entertainment today.
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Seeley



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disney was great y'all, no more than 5 minutes wait on line everywhere we went all day. Most were walk up and ride...

Racing at Jacksonville was awesome too. Sure, I packed up early, but the hotel waterslides in Orlando were calling, and the family was antsy to get moving. My brain was already in Orlando, or we would have finished the second heat instead of forgetting to attach the engine to the chassis properly

You know, the minimax crash was a racing incident. Neither Jesse nor Angus ran into the other, they committed to the same spot and both lost out. It wouldn't have been a big deal if the following karts hadn't guessed wrong on where Jesse would stop his slide/roll, which was another racing incident. Michael committed to his position on the track, then Jesse occupied it first. Taylor committed to his position, then Michael occupied it first. Nobody did it on purpose. I bet if you asked any one of the kids then or now, they would have preferred to not have any contact and wished they had did something just a little different.

Even Jesse, although he couldn't help getting turned, if he had just stopped on the racing line instead of rolling off it, would have been able to continue to chase after Michael and Taylor, and be chased by Angus.

All the players are playing their parts perfectly, at the track, a driver would never admit a mistake, and a Dad would never not back up his driver. It's no big deal. Even though I was grumpy (Disney Pun), Ritchie, Carl, Ihor, and Brian were all stopping by to offer help and parts, and I was rooting for Taylor in the final since I helped a little bit with getting his kart together. Angus came to our pit to talk to Jesse, and Jesse went to his. I think they're cool with it, Jesse knows it wasn't on purpose, Angus just made a little mistake when Jesse was on the edge of grip. It worked before, and it worked after, just not that once, the timing was just a little off.

Honestly, I'm just happy that we're able to sort of keep up. That was our fourth time driving the Minimax I think, after moving up from the non-competitive Micro class.

Thanks Rick and Carl for running the series in J'ville, and thank you North Florida Kart Club for hosting us. It was a perfect weather day, and a great show for our family, who never come to the races with Jesse and me.
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