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2014-09-20 13:00:00 GMT+00:00
Rotax Max and/or TaG turnout for 2013?
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DannyK



Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 38
Score: 1193
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Rotax Max and/or TaG turnout for 2013? Reply with quote

A friend and I are seriously considering getting into karting and interested in Rotax Max and TaG (senior). Looking at the 2012 Barnsville results it only looks like a few people showed up to each race (at best). Firstly, am I interpreting the results correctly? Secondly, is there any reason to believe this will change in 2013?

Looking at the not so near-by tracks, I see similar but slightly better turnouts form 2012:

CMP gets 4-7 racers
Ocala seems to get about 4-6 for 4 races this year
Monticello - had a couple TaGs show up here and there and almost no Rotax Max sr/masters
AMP - members only. Do they have any public sessions/races?
Little Tally - did not see a club/series

Where else should I look? Also, am I being a little pessimistic about the rotax/tag support in the Georgia area?

Thanks everyone!
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jeff bacon



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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Location: LOGANVILLE GA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shelbyville averaged 10 to 15 Tags last year, Mooresville will probably have 15 to 25 each race. I do know of a number of new Tag racers coming out, so I am hoping we can average better than 5 per race at Barnesville.
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Daniel White



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 503
Score: 6233
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello DannyK. I'm sure I speak for all the GSKA members in welcoming you to the scene. I began karting in 2008, when Rotax / TAG participation was at its peak. We would routinely have 14-18 racers (divided between Rotax Sr., Rotax Masters, and TAG), and sometimes 20+. During some race meetings the officials would combine classes.

Around 2010, numbers began to fall off, for various reasons. This past season I think I was the only driver to race (adult) Rotax more than once. TAG, which during its heyday still had smaller fields than Rotax, could only attract 1 or 2 racers, sometimes none at all.

During this off season there has been talk that some racers will return to TAG / Rotax. There is certainly enough equipment out there. The package is a lot of fun, very quick. Lap times for the fast regulars were in the high 22s, though if you were under 23.2 you were in the mix.

Because the Yamaha Can classes started to pick up, I eventually sold my 6-race old Arrow chassis (as well as my motor) and decided to join the Yamaha group. Initially, I had great misgivings because I felt the package was too slow for my taste (someone let me take their kart out--with an unblueprinted motor--and I only ran 26.2). But since getting my latest kart, I feel as if the speed is still a thrill. The frontrunners are just under 25 flat (although a local veteran "legend" ran a 24.4 last spring), but drivers in the 25-25.2 range are competitive. In my first day I ran 25.18.

New rules this season will see the most significant change to Yamaha speeds, as we are switching from a 4-hole can to a spec pipe. Our 2-cycle chief, John Wehrheim, has done a ton of research, and figures that lap times will drop a further 3-4 tenths. In short, this class is capable of lap times about 1.0-1.5 seconds from Rotax times. On my good days, in my Rotax, I would be only 3-4 tenths faster than Jim Hanson, the track record holder in Yamaha Can, would be in a Yamaha pipe.

I say all this not to discourage you from TAG or Rotax. I loved mine, and the guys in the class are terrific. But, in my opinion, at this time you are rolling the dice in terms of numbers that will show up on a regular basis. The Yamaha Pipe scene, however, will provide you a thrilling ride and plenty of competition. We should have 8-10 each race, and we may occasionally reach 14+.

Of course, this is a complicated discussion and hopefully you will get some feedback here from our members. If you have not raced karts before, almost anyone you talk to will say that clone or Yamaha is the way to enter the sport.
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DannyK



Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 38
Score: 1193
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for the info gentlemen.

Time to do some homework on yamaha. Are rotax/tag chassis the same for KT100's, or are there really that few yamaha chassis' available (quick look at ekartingnews classifieds yeilded only a couple yam chassis')?

For yamaha, is it best to get a good roller then add a new motor package? Or is used all the way around a possibility?

Also, how do i find out when the next open practice is? I would love to come down and introduce myself.
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Daniel White



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For club racing, you have a lot of options in terms of what chassis to use. As evidence, the guys who finished 1st and 2nd in the standings in Yamaha can (and were usually on top of the timesheets) drive older chassis designs (though they both take good care of their equipment).

Before you invest a lot of time looking on ekarting, there are a number of local guys who have equipment available. I'd certainly look at what they have. For starters, you can actually see the kart, rather than roll the dice on a chassis half-way across the country. I can pm you some names if you'd like.

Some will sell their kart as a package, but it doesn't really matter--you can buy chassis and engine separately.

In many cases you can use a TAG / Rotax motor, as well as a Yamaha motor, on the same chassis. Sometimes, a manufacture will tailor a chassis in their line to fit one engine package over the other.

So far on this forum you've only heard from me, but I would encourage you to wait for others to respond on this thread, particularly the TAG guys. Jeff Bacon knows of some guys who will be racing this class. I would reach out to him. Maybe he can get you in touch with some of those guys so they can give you their take.

Not sure if there is an open practice scheduled. Guys are there on most weekends. The first race is in 6 weeks and if you go to that race you can listen to many perspectives.
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amax20



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Danny, Check with Raceway motorsport for rotax stuff also he ran the series a few years back at bville. I know he is still doing quite a bit of the rotax. He can also get you hooked up on yamaha stuff, I know he builds motors for some of the guys running yamaha. I expect the yamaha stuff will be even bigger this year, so you might want to think about that seriously. cost alone is a big factor for alot of guys.
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redefined



Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys this is DannyK's buddy who's wanting to get into Karting with him. You stated that cost alone is enough for some guys to get into the KT100 karts, maybe we are looking at something wrong but it seems that Kart in the end will cost a good bit more money. Rebuilds need to happen about 5x as often vs a TAG/Rotax Kart with the KT100, am I wrong? I thought I read 4hr vs 20/30hr? The initial cost of the TAG/Rotax is higher but overall it seems cheaper to maintain, though there is a good chance I'm wrong about this, .!!

Right now we are considering running some 'local' stuff for fun and maybe making the drive out of state for a 6'sh race series elsewhere.

Someone above said that they were at 'the' track almost every weekend, or at least some guys are. Which track is this? Both DannyK and I would love to come out and meet-n-greet and get some info into these Karts. If Rotax/TAG has the potential to make a comeback here in GA neither one of us mind helping kickstart it.

Thanks again for the info, keep it coming!!
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jeff bacon



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are not wrong. Even thought the entry price of a Tag can be a little more, the long term cost can be much less. We have 2 Leopard engines that are 6 years old and have never been touched! But an important part of racing is if you have someone to race against. But it seems that there is a number of new Tag guys coming out, so either class should have some good competition this year. I do expect 5 to 7 more Yamahas however. Another factor is your fitness. The Tags are downright violent compared to the Yamaha. Of course, the best thing about the Tag is the on-board starter. Makes life much easier.
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amax20



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have raced both. and won on both. The yamaha cost me 1500.00 b/p new. I put a piston and ring in halfway through the year at a cost of 100.00 (1600). A new rotax is 3200.00, so i can buy 2 yamaha to one rotax. and can have them blue printed...but the button is nice i suppose. Laughing Last year i bought an x30 for 3000.00 with a used chassis 800.00. ran it twice against a total of 5 people combined. ., back to the yamaha this year so i can race with hanson, wilson, werhiem, and a slew of others.jmo..
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redefined



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amax20 wrote:
I have raced both. and won on both. The yamaha cost me 1500.00 b/p new. I put a piston and ring in halfway through the year at a cost of 100.00 (1600). A new rotax is 3200.00, so i can buy 2 yamaha to one rotax. and can have them blue printed...but the button is nice i suppose. Laughing Last year i bought an x30 for 3000.00 with a used chassis 800.00. ran it twice against a total of 5 people combined. ., back to the yamaha this year so i can race with hanson, wilson, werhiem, and a slew of others.jmo..


Thanks for the info. So is it not true that the Yamaha top end needs rebuilt every 4hr? That's what we were basing the price off of, rebuilding the Yamaha 5x as often as the Tag/Rotax. I'm ok with a higher initial cost if the overall maint is going to be lower.

I agree on the competition though, no fun racing against yourself or 1 other person. Good to see that you say more people will be coming out to TAG this year, might have to look into that as we are still not sure the real differences between TAG and Rotax, and the host of engine options available.
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