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  GSKA 2014 Race #8 Registration
2014-07-26 13:00:00 GMT+00:00
next year
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Ihor Bilyy
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1864
Score: 29004
Location: Canton, GA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject: next year Reply with quote

Hello all Rotax orphans.

Some series are done with the schedule, some are still racing 2011 season. Its time to start planning for next year and I would like to hear opinions on where will you race next year.
The options are:

CMP (season runs from February-ish to November)
GSKA (club plans unknown at this time)
SEKA (4 races, plans for 2012 unknown)
OGP (2 separate seasons, spring and fall; starts in January, ends in December)
FKCS (schedule is out, only Jacksonville and Ocala close to us, the rest is deep south (500+ miles from ATL))
Monticello (no Rotax but they can accommodate non-EasyKart classes, just have to plan together)
Jacksonville (pretty much the same as Monticello, both racing seasons start in January/February)

I'm leaning towards OGP season with 1 or 2 FKCS weekends. Last race there were 14 Micro, 10 Mini, 10 Juniors, 10 Seniors, 14 masters.
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John Wehrheim
Senior 2 Cycle Director


Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2493
Score: 33471
Location: Norcross

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: next year Reply with quote

Ihor Bilyy wrote:
GSKA (club plans unknown at this time).


We welcome the Rotax drivers anytime and will be happy to have separate races provided we can get a minimum of 3 karters in a class.

If you would like to coordinate some races with GSKA, please let us know.
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Ihor Bilyy
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1864
Score: 29004
Location: Canton, GA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite being supported by GSKA and selected classes without condition of 3 entries, the only class which had more than 3 karts in average was Yamaha Sr (3.69 entries per race).
Yamaha Jr - 1.77
TaG - 1.38 (with 6 races with 0 entries)
Shifter - 1.92

Isn't it a failure for 2011 board?
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John Wehrheim
Senior 2 Cycle Director


Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2493
Score: 33471
Location: Norcross

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ihor,
Personally I do not see the low kart count in 2 cycle as a failure by the board. I believe the low kart count in these classes are due to:
1. Economy
2. Low kart counts in these classes. New karters want to race where there is competition.
3. Limited local 2 cycle support at the track by kart shops

Yamaha Sr. Can is a new class and it is gradually growing and I expect it to continue to grow next year.

I am also a firm believer that a new karter should start in a low HP kart so they can really learn how to drive a kart fast and learn how to tune a kart.
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Darrin Tebbe
Out to pasture


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 1205
Score: 28123
Location: Brooks, GA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as Jr 2-cycle turnout, for a new person coming in it's a hard sell when you consider that the Clone Jr 1 package is faster than Yamaha Sportsman or Cadet, and is way lower cost and maintenance. Once they get started on the 4 cycle they tend to stay on them, especially with how competitive our 4 cycle classes are.

I think the Yamaha Sr Can class has done very well. If everyone who owned one would show up every week it would probably be one of the bigger classes at our club.

It's all about commitment, from both the racers and the shops they race out of. Both have to be committed in order for classes to flourish.

Our 2 cycle plans for next year are very similar to yours. Ocala, some FKCS, and CMP if a good group looks like it will show up. Will still run clone at Barnesville when nothing else is going on.

DT
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Ihor Bilyy
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1864
Score: 29004
Location: Canton, GA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Wehrheim wrote:
Ihor,
Personally I do not see the low kart count in 2 cycle as a failure by the board. I believe the low kart count in these classes are due to:
1. Economy


p.p.p.lease, people buying an selling 4 cycle chassis for twice they can buy competitive chassis for 2 cycle

Quote:
2. Low kart counts in these classes. New karters want to race where there is competition.


Chicken and egg. Low turnout because nobody knows who is going to be there. With not even having rotax classes on registration page, why bother?

Quote:
3. Limited local 2 cycle support at the track by kart shops


Really need to have it? I do not get any support for years, going to places where Birels and Tonys are main classes, with rare exceptions. Karter to karter support is always there. And in Barnesville it is not a big deal not to race if something happens and nobody can lend you a part. Its not like you traveled for 6 hours and now have to travel back same amount of time.

Quote:
I am also a firm believer that a new karter should start in a low HP kart so they can really learn how to drive a kart fast and learn how to tune a kart.


It is completely different driving and tuning style. Hard pillow ($$) to swallow if you don't like 4 cycle and want to go 2 cycle or opposite. People tend to stay with their decision (based on current class sizes) or quit for this or other reasons.

---------------

From all people racing 2 cycle in 2008 (503 entries) and 2009 (343 entries), only few started and keep going to CMP or Ocala. I'm sure if GSKA will put rotax classes back in schedule, they will come back and race locally.
2010 was exploring year - "will I be able to go to other places?". In 2011 door was "shut down" for them to come back to Barnesville. With missing $$ for last 2 years, GSKA would have had barriers paid off already without sponsors.
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John Wehrheim
Senior 2 Cycle Director


Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2493
Score: 33471
Location: Norcross

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ihor,
It's ok for people to have a difference of opinion, just don't bash them.

So I will respond to your comments on how I see it, again, just how I see it.
1. Yes you can buy a 2 cycle chassis for about the same price as a 4 cycle, but now lets look at the price of the motors. $2,000 for a used Rotax. I bought my Clone motor with everything for $350. That is a significant difference in today's economy.

2. Even when we did have it on the registration page, rarely no one would ever show up. So why have it on the registration page when others have a desire to race at other tracks. In addition, how many Rotax would even race on a regular basis. If you are so keen on racing Rotax locally, contact the racers and make a recommendation.

3. You are correct, you do not need a local shop to race, but my point was that you need a local shop that promotes the class and is at the track to help support their customers or the class. Why do you think Roberts Kart Shop is so successful. Simple, they are at the track weekend and week out to support the class and customers.

4. Is the driving style different, yes a bit, but not alot. Tuning is the same. Sorry, I have tuned on a lot of different karts and classes. But what do I know.

Again, if you and others would like to race at GSKA, we welcome you! All they need to do is to voice it. The only people that I have heard from are the Spek's, Daniel White, the Skagg's (for Tag). Maybe others have voiced, but these are the only ones I can recall.
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Darrin Tebbe
Out to pasture


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 1205
Score: 28123
Location: Brooks, GA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My biggest concern about having classes listed on the registration and classes page is that a newcomer might just look there and make their decision solely by what they see there. I'd hate to see a new racer spend $3k-$4k on a package and show up only to find out they are the only kart in the class.

This was a real problem in the past, and it pretty much killed our 8-12 year old 2 cycle classes. We had 4 classes that age group could race in and had 1-3 karts in each one of the classes.

We have 2 quality ladders right now, one for 2 stroke and one for 4 stroke. I don't think we can expect 2 cycle entries until we have a local shop that promotes and supports those classes at our club.

If we had a reliable Rotax partner we could rely on for the long run, I would be for at least doing a 4-6 race RMAX challenge series embedded within our regular season and see how things go from there. I've always been a fan of the Rotax concept, but it has to be done right if you are going to do it. It was done right at our club in 2008, but a squabble over year-end awards pretty much blew it up. It's a shame that cooler heads couldn't prevail.

DT
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jeff bacon



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 1069
Score: 15140
Location: LOGANVILLE GA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would hope that any newcomer would come and see whats going on before spending a large amount of money on a kart package. The audience we need to make sure to capture are those people from other areas, or people that move here with equipment. I think the simple solution is to clearly list classes on the registration page that are points paying and those that are not. As classes get more participation, they can move to points paying status. One of the things that grew this club was being inclusive of anyone with a race legal kart. As long as we can place the newcomers in a race group without growing the number of groups, we should be OK.
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Ihor Bilyy
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1864
Score: 29004
Location: Canton, GA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darrin Tebbe wrote:
My biggest concern about having classes listed on the registration and classes page is that a newcomer might just look there and make their decision solely by what they see there. I'd hate to see a new racer spend $3k-$4k on a package and show up only to find out they are the only kart in the class.

This was a real problem in the past, and it pretty much killed our 8-12 year old 2 cycle classes.


Can you name names?
Cadet (not 4k package) - all moved up.
MicroMax - all moved up.
Yamaha Sportsman - we had 3, one is still racing regionally, 2 moved up to Junior.
MiniMax - all Minis moved to Juniors, some even to Legends. One left the sport and not for a reason of racing alone.

Quote:
We have 2 quality ladders right now, one for 2 stroke...


The problem is that you and John thinks its a quality ladder in 2 stroke. You don't have place to race, other than Daytona once a year. Is it a quality?

Quote:
If we had a reliable Rotax partner we could rely on for the long run, I would be for at least doing a 4-6 race RMAX challenge series embedded within our regular season and see how things go from there.


We just returned from Ocala, it was not Rotax Challenge race. All fall races are local races where they don't even check your membership and at the same time 95% entries were rotax engines. Who cares, if in all years only few guys from GA went to Nationals? Why can't Rotax be local class? How is it different from Leopard?
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