INPUT WANTED 4 Cycle Jrs.

richie#89 · Joined: 02 Nov 2007 Posts: 738 Score: 8701

aww ... that was the most entertainment i've had on this forum in a long time Arguing

darrin, seriously, u should add one more week to your 2010 schedule. this week in ocala.
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lee33 · Joined: 27 Nov 2008 Posts: 61 Score: 1653

I am sorry for any hurt feelings. I will not let my Son and I be called out as not being legal. I stand with Darren and Steve in having a constructive dialogue between those who actually participate at B'ville regularly.

John Frazer · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:49 pm Post subject:

I am with Richie#89 this has been a very entertaining thread! I certainly hope Angus' season has been as well. But back to the point, the clone classes for the kids have been great. They have grown and the drivers have learned a lot and so have the crew chiefs. Steve, as our board member, has asked us for ideas for improvement so does anybody have any ideas?

I asked Hank what he thought and his response was "The start of our races suck!" I gave an idea and it may not be a positive solution but I think it is an area we need to work on. Several have tried to talk to the boys but the proof is on the track and the results.

My hat goes off to everyone who races and tries to give it all. I think the season ending standings truly reflect who worked the hardest, invested the most time, money, and patience in this endeavor. The question at hand is what can we do to make it better for us, keep us coming back to the track, and recruit new blood to whip up on.

Please give Steve some concrete ideas and suggestions.

Steve Bushell · Guest

Thanks for all your kind words ,

I do have a suggestion as to starts , I may be way out in left field , but, here goes.

Facts or my opinion ?

1- you can talk to your drivers until you are blue in the face, but, when the motors start and the grid man lets them on the track all they think is " I NEED TO GO TO THE FRONT"

2-A lot of racers are getting involved in 1st corner wrecks and their day is over NOT GOOD FOR RACERS,PARENTS or THE CLUB

3-1st corner wrecks are going to happen no matter where you start the race "WE NEED TO CHANGE THE MINDSET OF THE YOUNG RACERS"

What I propose to do and based on the fact that we are not pressed for time at most races ( Night Race is questionable) is have a maximum of 2 more tries to start the race after the 1st start.

Start # 1 If ANY karts spin out , are wrecked ,or are pushed off the track in the first corner ( Starters disgretion) we throw the YELLOW / RED restart flag and have a complete restart

Start # 2 We line them up and try again , but, as in start # 1 If ANY karts spin out , are wrecked ,or are pushed off the track in the first corner ( Starters disgretion) we throw the YELLOW / RED restart flag and have a complete restart with modifications.

Start # 3 FINAL TRY we line karts up single file and restart the race , at this point we have to let it go green unless a injury or dangerous situation occurs.

What we need to do is give the young racers MORE practice at starts. The kids are going to get frustrated at restarts,but, this is a club race and the object here is to have fun , let everyone race , and teach the racers new skills . The way it is now where if your wreck in the 1st corner and your day is over is not helping anyone or attracting new racers .

Let me know what you may think the pros and cons are if it is something we would like to try? Remember its is not written in stone so it can be refined all year long if need be.

thanks
Steve

p.s. On a personal note we have actually bennifited from 1st corner wrecks the last 3 races , because of trying different setups Case was not qualifiying very well ( 7, 8, 9 th) , but we were lucky and made it thru the 1st corner wreck to come out in the top 3 every time , it was good for us , but, at the expense of innocent drivers who got caught up in somebody elses mistake.

John Wehrheim · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject:

Another option is to put some rules in place. Rule is the following
1. Starts must be slow. This must be at the discreation of the Starter. I have seen many starts too fast.
2. If pace is too fast, it is waived off
3. If outside front row is ahead of the pole sitter, it is waived off
4. If after two attempts, the front row gets put to the second row and the second row becomes the front row.
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John
Board of Directors
Sr. 2 Cycle Director

Darrin Tebbe · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject:

I agree with slow starts, pole setting the pace, and invert after two failed attempts.

Do not agree with more than one chance at a start. More than one chance is only going to make them that much more aggressive the 1st two times. I also don't think it's fair to the kids that make good starts the 1st time to give everyone else 2 and 3 shots at them.

A thought is to have a video camera at turn one, review the starts at the end of each week and if you are the cause of turn 1 pileups you start at the back of the back the following race regardless of where you qualify. I guarantee a couple of rear-pack starts will tone down turn 1 aggression.

DT

John Frazer · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:53 pm Post subject:

I am glad we are staying on topic now.
I am also glad we are addressing the issue Hank and I are raising.

I do not have the solution to the problem, but the suggestions of John W. and Darrin, are not actually solving the problem. We know that some etiquette is supposed to be understood as to how a race starts, however there is no consequence as described for crossing that line.

A philosophical question is "who says the pole sitter or the front row have anything to say about the speed or pace of the start, what is the flagman's role?"

The process as We understand it and how We observe the results on the track, and the officials decisions; it pays to be the villain.

That is the issue I am trying to raise and solve.

I hope I am not beating the horse to death and we are raising a valid issue. If we are alone in this matter we will shut up.

We believe if some one messes up a start then that person should have a punishment. If you mess up the start you go to the back the first time. It doesn't matter if you are first or 5th you go to dead last.

2 years ago at the night race I told Hank to jump the start from the outside pole. he did and it won him the race. and if he was caught then they would have just gone around again for another try.

The point is we know the game and the risks for manipulating the start.
So does every one else. There appears to be very little risk so winning the pole does not mean much.

What say you?

lee33 · Joined: 27 Nov 2008 Posts: 61 Score: 1653

Pole Position is always a plus. I believe we all realize that some improvements could possibly be made yet we also know how difficult it will be to get the kids to race nice. There are those who are in scrapes quite often and then there are drivers that respect each other and the sport. I would suggest a standing start with increased stagger close to turn 1 as an option. That being said I believe that the way we do it now is the method with the least flaws.

Darrin Tebbe · Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:20 am Post subject:

On the subject of starts let's just remember we are not on our own little island. There are many of our kids that use the local series as practice for other series and tracks. I think any start procedure that varies drastically from the way everyone else does it is counterproductive. The #1 issue we need to address is the speed at which they come to the green flag.

DT