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Good Bye, DrChip!
INPUT WANTED 4 Cycle Jrs.
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richie#89



Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 746
Score: 8868


PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aww ... that was the most entertainment i've had on this forum in a long time Arguing
darrin, seriously, u should add one more week to your 2010 schedule. this week in ocala.
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lee33



Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Posts: 61
Score: 1676


PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sorry for any hurt feelings. I will not let my Son and I be called out as not being legal. I stand with Darren and Steve in having a constructive dialogue between those who actually participate at B'ville regularly.
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John Frazer
4 Cycle Director


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 7
Score: 1367
Location: Roswell, Ga

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am with Richie#89 this has been a very entertaining thread! I certainly hope Angus' season has been as well. But back to the point, the clone classes for the kids have been great. They have grown and the drivers have learned a lot and so have the crew chiefs. Steve, as our board member, has asked us for ideas for improvement so does anybody have any ideas?

I asked Hank what he thought and his response was "The start of our races suck!" I gave an idea and it may not be a positive solution but I think it is an area we need to work on. Several have tried to talk to the boys but the proof is on the track and the results.

My hat goes off to everyone who races and tries to give it all. I think the season ending standings truly reflect who worked the hardest, invested the most time, money, and patience in this endeavor. The question at hand is what can we do to make it better for us, keep us coming back to the track, and recruit new blood to whip up on.

Please give Steve some concrete ideas and suggestions.
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John Wehrheim



Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2314
Score: 34019
Location: Norcross

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another option is to put some rules in place. Rule is the following
1. Starts must be slow. This must be at the discreation of the Starter. I have seen many starts too fast.
2. If pace is too fast, it is waived off
3. If outside front row is ahead of the pole sitter, it is waived off
4. If after two attempts, the front row gets put to the second row and the second row becomes the front row.
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Darrin Tebbe
Information Technology


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 1023
Score: 29028
Location: Brooks, GA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with slow starts, pole setting the pace, and invert after two failed attempts.

Do not agree with more than one chance at a start. More than one chance is only going to make them that much more aggressive the 1st two times. I also don't think it's fair to the kids that make good starts the 1st time to give everyone else 2 and 3 shots at them.

A thought is to have a video camera at turn one, review the starts at the end of each week and if you are the cause of turn 1 pileups you start at the back of the back the following race regardless of where you qualify. I guarantee a couple of rear-pack starts will tone down turn 1 aggression.

DT
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John Frazer
4 Cycle Director


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 7
Score: 1367
Location: Roswell, Ga

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am glad we are staying on topic now.
I am also glad we are addressing the issue Hank and I are raising.

I do not have the solution to the problem, but the suggestions of John W. and Darrin, are not actually solving the problem. We know that some etiquette is supposed to be understood as to how a race starts, however there is no consequence as described for crossing that line.

A philosophical question is "who says the pole sitter or the front row have anything to say about the speed or pace of the start, what is the flagman's role?"

The process as We understand it and how We observe the results on the track, and the officials decisions; it pays to be the villain.

That is the issue I am trying to raise and solve.

I hope I am not beating the horse to death and we are raising a valid issue. If we are alone in this matter we will shut up.

We believe if some one messes up a start then that person should have a punishment. If you mess up the start you go to the back the first time. It doesn't matter if you are first or 5th you go to dead last.

2 years ago at the night race I told Hank to jump the start from the outside pole. he did and it won him the race. and if he was caught then they would have just gone around again for another try.

The point is we know the game and the risks for manipulating the start.
So does every one else. There appears to be very little risk so winning the pole does not mean much.

What say you?
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lee33



Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Posts: 61
Score: 1676


PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole Position is always a plus. I believe we all realize that some improvements could possibly be made yet we also know how difficult it will be to get the kids to race nice. There are those who are in scrapes quite often and then there are drivers that respect each other and the sport. I would suggest a standing start with increased stagger close to turn 1 as an option. That being said I believe that the way we do it now is the method with the least flaws.
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Darrin Tebbe
Information Technology


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 1023
Score: 29028
Location: Brooks, GA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of starts let's just remember we are not on our own little island. There are many of our kids that use the local series as practice for other series and tracks. I think any start procedure that varies drastically from the way everyone else does it is counterproductive. The #1 issue we need to address is the speed at which they come to the green flag.

DT
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Ihor Bilyy
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1781
Score: 29485
Location: Canton, GA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggested it before for all classes starts. Please put 3-4 cones in the middle of the track at starting point not on the sides. This will help karts separate and first such cone could be an acceleration cone. Green flag guy should make a starting decision so leaders see it clearly and have time to react properly, not 1-2 yards from the karts. If they reached first cone and no green flag, it should be repeated next lap.
Pole sitter in all classes all sessions should be reminded by grid marshal about slow start.
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Mike Pugh
Race Director


Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 913
Score: 36193
Location: Stockbridge ga

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen Brotha Ihor! I suggested the same thing earlier in this thread. The cones last year forced the karts together right at the entrance to turn one. Cones down the middle would separate them. I watched every start last year and think this would solve the issue.

BTW...Doesn't the flagman start the race at nationals and not the guy on the pole?
The guy on the pole just sets the pace?
I couldn't tell you because I never had the luxury of starting there. Laughing
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